LOFF56 IS BACK AND TALKING LIFE AND DEATH! PL RESPONDS!

Here's LOFF56:

Hey PL - Long time no comment...

Yeah, someone posted this on Facebook a couple of days ago and I read the article. Interesting, yes, but my initial reaction was that I was a little suspicious of motivation.

I'm familiar enough with the quantum science that Dr. Lanza employs here. It's incredibly fascinating, completely mind boggling and really makes you think about the nature of reality. But applying this incredibly complex theory which very few people in the world, if any, can actually wrap their minds around the mathematics of to anything tangible or even intangible seems at best extremely mis-guided or excessively optimistic.

I mean I guess anyone can make a theory about something, so I guess he's not at fault for mis-informing anyone. But what's the goal of this theory? As far as I can tell, it seems like he's trying to provide a methodology of coping with death. The article starts, "Many of us fear death." Isn't that like a big neon sign that says: "Read on - I can tell you how to not fear death."?

From a logical standpoint he says: "Death does not exist in a timeless, spaceless world." Ok. Yes, I guess that's true. But if so then you have to concede that LIFE doesn't exist in a timeless, spaceless world. It's comforting to wrap your mind around an uncomfortable abstraction like death by putting it in an equally abstract context, but when you do the same with life which is more easily... felt (for a lack of a better word)... it seems wholly uncomfortable. "What, you're telling me that life doesn't exist? But I experience it as existing." You can't have your cake and eat it too.

From a psychological standpoint the quote that he uses to bolster the practice of his theory seems incredibly psychologically naive: "I grieve that grief can teach me nothing..." Really?? I'll defer to PL on this one, can grief teach us nothing? Is he suggesting that we just forego with any practical or well established methods of grieving and instead just convince ourselves that this scientific theory eliminates the need for us to believe that our loved ones are actually dead? ???

I'm as interested in the scientific answer as anyone, but I think the application of science in real life ought to be carefully checked when people start making claims about it that push it into the realm of religion. At this point in scientific understanding, I don't think it's any more Truthful to suggest that when we die we live on in a parallel universe as it is to suggest that we live on in either heaven or hell.

Yes Einstein said that we live in a "stubbornly persistent illusion". I have the intellect to imagine and comprehend what that means, but I don't have the physical, mental or emotional capacity to actually live outside of that illusion. Enlightenment, I think, would get me closer, but probably still light years away from being able to do that.

I'm curious as to your opinion on this PL. Usually you give it away with your comments when you post an article, but all you said was "interesting" this time. Perhaps you're on neutral ground?

Here's PL:

Welcome back, L56! Good to have your thoughtful ponderings about ponderous matters.

Here are some of my thoughts -

Trying to understand life beyond a space-time continuum, while living in one, is a major challenge, but do-able. A knowledge of quantum physics can give us that understanding. Actually experiencing life outside of the space-time continuum, while living in one, well, some would say that happens all the time - when we dream. Often in dreams, "we" are in two or more places at once and traversing the past and present simultaneously. I actually do think, L56, that there is ample scientific evidence that consciousness continues after the body "dies," but the fear-of-death business is a very lucrative one, so mainstream culture is indoctrinated with that fear. Religion is worse than useless in this regard, because religions push a reward and punishment philosophy more relevant to controlling children and prison inmates than alleviating irrational fears of death.

Does life exist outside of the space-time continuum? Well, unless you are strictly defining life as only that which is physical, why not? I take it you don't subscribe to Descarte's "I think, therefore I am" position?

On the subject of grief, well, to be human is to feel, and to feel must include feeling loss. Knowing that a loved one who has died may yet exist in another realm does not mitigate the need for grieving the loss in this realm. And not fearing death, or understanding that death is an illusion in some ways, again does not eliminate the need to experience loss at the emotional levels of our being. We are, after all, only human!

Thanks, L56!